| Interview W/ the 'Post Human Blues' blog |
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 Little Boy Blue and the Man in the Moon:
An Interview W/ Mac Tonnies of ‘Posthuman Blues’
MAD - www.upsidebackwards.info
5/8/08
“Fear not for the future, weep not for the past.”
~Percy Bysshe Shelley
“Stop acting as if life is a rehearsal. Live this day as if it were your last. The past is over and gone. The future is not guaranteed.”
~Wayne Dyer
-MAD: Mac, it’s terrific to speak with you as I’ve been a fan of your mind expanding blog POSTHUMAN BLUES for awhile now, so thanks for taking the time. The site has been updated, almost daily for 5 years now, covering a wide variety of subjects (mostly related to different areas of Science, UFOlogy, or futurism). Why did you decide to dedicate yourself to such material, what keeps you inspired, and how did your interest in these subjects initially begin?
-MAC: I never consciously decided what subjects I would cover; Posthuman Blues began as an experiment, as I didn't really know if I’d take to blogging or not. Specifically, I didn't think my life was interesting enough to warrant a Web presence -- and, frankly, it probably isn't. But I quickly found myself using Posthuman Blues as a holding pen for ideas. I even wrote a portion of my Mars book online. Five years later, it's kind of fun to look back on. It's taken on a double-role as diary and time capsule.
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-MAD: Your book, ‘AFTER THE MARTIAN APOCALYPSE ’ speculatively addresses the evidences for previous civilizations on Mars, in lieu with the research and theories of people such as Richard C. Hoagland. While I still believe that there are probably thousands, if not millions of intelligent life-forms out there in the cosmos, and used to accept the “Face on Mars” as highly probable, I’ve grown more and more skeptical of the latter over the years due to the fact that it’s almost become akin to a faith based religion founded on misconstrued evidence. We basically seem to keep running in the same circles of discussion proposed by ‘The Weekly World News’ back in the 70’s when these images were first released by NASA. I know it’s impossible to say definitively, but are you of the inclination that there indeed was a previous civilization on Mars, and if so, have the lineages of Earth people and Martians crossed paths over the millenniums?
-MAC: I've grown incredibly bored with the way the Mars artificiality debate (such as it is) has progressed over the years. I don't think the issue will be advanced until we land on Mars in person. In the meantime, meaningful discussion has stagnated. Proponents and debunkers alike approach the issue in an almost religious context: one either "believes" or one doesn't. The fact that this is a testable inquiry has been essentially forgotten.
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-MAD: Before we go any further, you’re an active member of the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) research group. How long have you been involved with the organization? Have their ever been any exciting or curious moments over the years, and if contact with an advanced civilization does indeed occur, do you believe that SETI might be the first line of communication with unknown races?
-MAC: I blog for SETI.com, which isn't affiliated with the SETI Institute you're probably thinking of. (I have the feeling Seth Shostak would rather have me burned at the stake than be a spokesman for his organization.) That said, I have a deep interest in SETI and would like to see the search for extraterrestrial intelligence broadened in scope. I see no reason why we must remain content to wait for radio signals that will probably never come -- although I'd be most intrigued if they did.
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-MAD: Do you see official contact with a planet of fellow space dwellers sometime in the next century? Less time, or more?
-MAC: I waver on this one. I think we're more likely to discover evidence of alien intelligence in the form of physical artifacts, perhaps on the Moon, Mars or even on Earth.
I'd like to think we could become a space-faring species within the next century, ensuring that human intelligence will persist if things go awry here at home, which seems increasingly likely. If our solar system has been visited, an expansive human presence in space is liable to find traces of it. But ultimately I agree with Arthur C. Clarke: the discovery could come today or it could come a million years from now. But sooner or later it will probably happen -- if indeed it's not happening right now and we've simply failed to recognize it.
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-MAD: If such a technologically advanced race gains the ability to travel through galaxies to different planets and solar systems, what is the likely hood that they will be peaceful and benign as opposed to war mongering territorial conquerors who want to eat us?
-MAC: I think a sufficiently ancient ETI would be so alien that we might not even understand what it is, at least at first. We might lack the perceptual acumen -- let alone the intellect -- to discern a truly nonhuman intelligence in our midst.
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-MAD: Do you think Richard Hoagland is a descendent of a race of Martian Bigfoots?
-MAC: That's the question that keeps me awake at night.
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-MAD: Seriously though, not to Hoagland bash because I respect some of his knowledge, but is it just me or do a great many of the “Monuments on Mars” images appear to have been made in a playground sandbox in his backyard with a cheap camera? Aside from some circumstantial evidences, and the proposals that there are Martian pyramids lined up with the Egyptian pyramids, is there any proof or admittance by NASA officials or otherwise of any evidence for intelligently built structures on Mars or the Moon?
-MAC: The evidence is in the public domain. I find much of it compelling, certainly worth careful follow-up. But I'm distinctly unimpressed with most of Hoagland's research.
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-MAD: Might some of these “End the Coverup!” stories, UFO reports or “alien god” theories as devised by Sitchin or Von Daniken, in fact be cleverly disguised reverse psychology in order to perpetuate these “fringe sciences” to the masses as pop-theory fact? I’m sure that in some cases these pseudo-sciences can sell a lot of books or DVD’s to a confused public searching for answers.
-MAC: There's a huge amount of interest in "weird" subjects just waiting to be tapped. Unfortunately, most of the outré ideas embraced by the public hinge on one's willingness to believe.
One of the subjects I find myself returning to is the reconciliation between esoteric phenomena such as UFOs and academically sanctioned "mainstream" science. Until that schism is bridged, our understanding of the universe will remain necessarily incomplete. Of course, that doesn't mean that every strange theory deserves attention. Most don't. But our culture has imposed a spurious sense of "either/or" that antagonizes scientific method and insults genuine curiosity.
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-MAD: I respect that fact that you strive for fair and balanced reports in your own approach to this information. How far is too “far out” for you, and do you agree that a lot of the UFO reports, abduction cases, crop circles, should be taken with a grain of salt? What is the ratio of truth as opposed to imagination and speculation when dealing with UFO related material?
-MAC: Separating the signal from the noise will always be the central problem with Fortean research. I think there's an authentic signal hidden in the paranormal fugue, but most of the contributing voices are misleading. I can almost sympathize with the Michael Shermers of the world: it's so much easier to just dismiss claims of alien contact out of hand and be done with it. But there's no reason to expect an inquiry this multifaceted to be easy or readily understandable.
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-MAD: One of the big space stories last year was of the “Caves on Mars”, in which a special new probe was going to be built to further explore these regions. What are some of your thoughts on the Caves and sink holes on the surface of the red planet, and would you agree that if there indeed was life on Mars (currently or previously), that there’s a better chance that the remains of previous civilizations might be found within hidden corners and holes on this barren wasteland? Might caves better preserve genetic or sociological information?
-MAC: I predict we'll find extant life on Mars. It's a matter of commitment. Subsurface ice deposits are a natural place to look, and the "caves" would definitely warrant a visit if I got to choose sites for future exploration. And if there are ruins on Mars we'd be foolish to assume the "Martians" (whatever that term might ultimately mean) ignored the advantages of living below the surface.
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-MAD: NASA has proposed returning to the Moon in 2020, with perhaps a manned Mars mission shortly thereafter. Do you think we’ll make good on our promises of future Moon and Mars missions, and aside from budget, what’s taking so long? It’s going on 40 years since the previous moon missions, and it’s strangely suspicious that no other country, Russia, China, Japan, etc, have gone back in all this time.
-MAC: The Moon-Mars Initiative was the only good thing to come out of the Bush administration. My concern now is that it will be quietly forgotten or its budget slashed. I wouldn't be at all surprised if 21st century spaceflight is spearheaded by some other nation. I don't see a conspiracy at work; I see a dreadful (and unfortunately typical) lack of vision.
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-MAD: Bush did state in the days following the Columbia disaster (which ended its flight of re-entry in his home state of Texas) that he “Did believe there was life out there”. At current progression, in your opinion, how long might it be before we finally get these space hotels and flying cars they’ve been waving in front of our faces for the past 7 decades? There has to be a market, and advertisers, in which space tourism could be very viable to the economy and world status of involved countries.
-MAC: Commercial space travel just might save us. In many respects, the private sector is better equipped for long-range ventures such as orbital hotels than any government I can think of. I've been watching Bigelow Aerospace, for example, with much interest.
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-MAD: There’s been a lot of buzz around the CERN Large Hadron Collider in recent months, and even a lawsuit filed by a man who believed that the atom-smasher might indeed open up a Black Hole or Time Vortex which could potentially destroy Earth! Scientists have even stated (with no visible humor) that Time Travel might be possible sometime this summer, and we might expect visitors from other worlds to walk through the portal to our dimension! What are some of your thoughts on the future of CERN, and should we be worried that something completely unexpected and disastrous could occur with the misuse of technology such as this?
-MAC: British astronomer Martin Rees has presented what I think is a reasonable protocol for high-energy physics experiments: the processes involved must have already occurred naturally, demonstrating that they pose no fundamental risk to the fabric of space-time. Otherwise the potential danger is unacceptable. It's actually not altogether impossible that we could spawn a miniature black hole or unintentionally create a "time machine," especially as our experimental hardware improves.
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-MAD: If we do discover the mechanisms of Black Hole science, might one of the first applications be weaponization; bombing cities into another dimension with no clean up mess?
-MAC: I hadn't thought of that. It might be messier than you think!
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-MAD: Time Travel, how likely is it for human intellect to figure it out, how far into the future are we talking here before we utilize it, and if you could personally travel anywhere in Earth’s history what would the destination be?
-MAC: It makes sense that a time traveler could only go back as far as the creation of the time machine itself. But we don't know if time machines already exist or not. Maybe some extraterrestrial civilization has beaten us to it, in which case it might be possible to visit the distant past. (I'm interested in the possibility, however slim, that the "Grays" of UFO abduction infamy are our posthuman descendents eavesdropping in such a way that their own existence isn't imperiled.)
If I got to choose a temporal destination I'd probably visit prehistory and take in the demise of the Neanderthals.
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-MAD: In the past few weeks we lost Professor John A. Wheeler, who coined the term “Black Hole”, as well as Professor Edward Lorenz who is noted as the father of “Chaos Theory”. There was also the death of Arthur C. Clark last month; all 3 men lived into their 90’s. I’d assume that you’ve found some influence from these three great intellects during the course of your own career and studies?
-MAC: Clarke, certainly. "2001" was the first science fiction novel to send genuine chills down my spine.
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-MAD: Who are some of your favorite authors? Movies? Music?
-MAC: My favorite authors are William Gibson, Franz Kafka, William S. Burroughs, and Philip K. Dick. There are others, but those are the big four. I like intelligent science fiction movies: "Blade Runner," "12 Monkeys," and "2001" qualify. And I'm a huge fan of "Edward Scissorhands" and "The Man Who Fell To Earth." Musically, I'm still mostly in the 80s, but the latest albums on my playlist (Radiohead's "In Rainbows," R.E.M.'s "Accelerete" and Portishead's "Third") are more recent.
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-MAD: It seems we both share in a love for R.E.M. and Portishead. What are a handful of futurist technologies or “miracle” gadgetries that you see emerging in the next few decades? I see a virtual reality Internet system, possibly even merged into Hollywood and the interactive-ness of movie theater experiences.
-MAC: I suspect VR will finally come into its own within ten or fifteen years. In many respects we're already there: Second Life, for instance, proves that the concept has widespread appeal. (On a side note, maybe the reason we have yet to hear from aliens is because they opt out of reality in favor of massively networked VR environments. Add another variable to the Drake Equation.)
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-MAD: It is strange living in a world where someone can become an online millionaire selling “virtual clothing” to characters that only exist in a VR environment. Cloning, human-animal hybrids, how far do you see this progressing, is it already more advanced then is commonly public knowledge, and what kinds of ethics issues does it raise for future generations? Are we on the brink of a Eugenics revival?
-MAC: Well, Francis Fukuyama thinks we're on the brink of "Brave New World" and advises centralized oversight before it's too late and we're plunged into technocracy. I disagree. We'll have to learn to use biotechnology responsively because we have no real choice. In the end, I think biotech will help liberate us from the confines of both Earth and our own bodies. No one's going to successfully deny people a technology with that kind of potential.
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-MAD: Global Warming, some say it's entirely man-made while others are factoring in solar related activities as the primary cause. How much is
Democratic hype, how much is related to celestial cycles, and could upcoming Earth Changes possibly be aligned with ancient foreknowledge and worldwide religious prophecies?
-MAC: Global warming is real and human activity is the cause. Far from fueling legitimate concerns with hype, I've come to fear that climatologists are in fact understating the magnitude of the problem.
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-MAD: Will 2012 be a great global awakening, the end of history as we know it, or just another year?
-MAC: Just another year, unfortunately -- although I appreciate the 2012 phenomenon because it serves as a useful reminder that time is effectively speeding up. Terence McKenna characterized our age by the rapid increase in novelty; maybe by 2012 we will have exhausted contemporary preoccupations to the point where we'll begin to eagerly jettison the baggage of the last century. But any change we'll experience will be up to us -- waiting and hoping to be awakened by some undefined external force will guarantee that we'll have learned nothing.
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-MAD: Robotics and artificial intelligence. Mechanized Robo-blow-jobs by 2050?
-MAC: Oh, much sooner than that. "Blade Runner" takes place in 2019; somehow that time-frame seems fairly accurate. Which is actually pretty remarkable considering the movie was released in 1982. But will machines be truly sentient? That's another matter -- and perhaps one we'll never resolve to our satisfaction no matter how "real" they might seem.
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-MAD: Mac, thanks again for your thoughtful answers. I wish you the best of luck with the coming years and hope you’ll keep up the good work with your informative websites. Hope we can do it again sometime and definitely wish to keep in touch as I’m sure we could talk about this stuff all day. I respect your outlook and perspective on these topics. As we finish up is there anything you’d like to leave the readers with?
-MAC: The future is unwritten. We still have a chance to actualize some pretty amazing ideas. My main concern at this point is that we'll succumb to catastrophe before we manage to venture out of the womb -- and that's a chance we'll only get once.
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MAD is the Administrator of www.upsidebackwards.info and creator of 'Ezekiel's Cave'.
Mac Tonnies is the curator of POSTHUMAN BLUES, the author of ‘After the Martian Apocalypse’, and can also be reached at: http://www.mactonnies.com/ .
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Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 @ 15:11:04 CDT by thothmoses3 |
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